Curse

TheRanger · Jan 07, 2009, 11:55 PM // 23:55

Mmmkay, rate, feedback, suggestions if necessary.

[Focused Anger]["For Great Justice!"]["Save yourselves!"]["They're on Fire!"][Signet of Aggression][Mending Refrain]["I am the Strongest!"][Great Dwarf Weapon]

Leadership: Max (No sup rune)
Spear 10
Motivation: Enough to give Mending it's +3 regain

I have a stack of pie from a while back so Aggressive Refrain isn't necessary for me. Alliance track also is maxed so SY can be kept up infinitely even while casting skills such as Great Dwarfs Weapon. No res but if it's an important mission I'll bring a Res Scroll o' somethin'.

They're on Fire has no purpose other than to fuel Mending Refrain and Signet of Aggression. If theirs a SF ele on your team, then yay (although it'll only reduce your damage by an extra 5% or so with SY). I prefer They're on Fire over some chants like Anthem of Weariness because it's instant cast. You'll be able to maintain it without having to recast it mid battle- often taking 1.75 seconds and ruining your perma SY. That extra cast would also interfere with with another cast such as Great Dwarfs Weapon so if you cast them both within one SY lifespan, you would probably lack the adrenaline to keep SY up next time. If you wait for the weapon, you'll end up losing a potential member you could have enchanted, mmmmkay. Mmmmkay so I'm not sure on this one. Convince me otherwise.

Signet of Aggression is really uber. See 'pros' below. Also gives adrenaline faster than just attacking so you can have the dally time to cast stuff like Drawfs Weapon.

Pros:
Permanent SY and even near permanent even through blind or similar.
SY just before the battle start, which is very mucho uber because most mobs will often cast their 1337 skills at the start.
Permanent Mending on everyone, which is uber.
Good damage, Great Dwarf's Weapon is incrediblely uber, has additional KD effects, and can be maintained on multiple people. Also has "I'm the Strongest which can be used before battle and therefore chained twice during battle for more uberness.

Cons:
I'll have to use mah pie.
Have to keep an eye out on numerous things such as Dwarfs Weapon, Mending Refrain, who has it, it's recharge and when to use it to maintain a perma SY balance. Also needs to monitor enchants for your shouts and most importantly, SY.
??? Penguins.

I'm thinkin' adding Ebon Battle Standard which came up while making this post actually. Too bad I'm maxed at PvE skills so it'll probably replace I'm the Strongest I assume. Any other ideas?

*Also I'm looking at mah attributes and something seems off. I dunno why Leadership is so high- it'll help with energy issues, true but I'll have to check it out on GW and I'm too lazy. Either that or swap with Spear. Mmmmkay

FoxBat · Jan 08, 2009, 12:03 AM // 00:03

Signets have aftercast, so at 1.75 seconds Aggression barely exceeds 2 attacks under IAS, which is usually why it isn't worth a slot. I guess it will go through blind/blocking but, it's kinda meh.

TheRanger · Jan 08, 2009, 12:08 AM // 00:08

It exceeds it by like a second or sowhich is really uber because you'll have that time to cast Weapon, Battle Stance, etc., while still maintaing a perma SY. Also good when you're hexed with skills such as Faintheartedness, and blind, which makes the build very mucho verstile. Also, like I've mentioned, it can be pre buffed before battle, wheres most mobs will cast their 1337'est skills at the beginning.

Edit: So yeah I'm doing the math, it's around .5 free time. But I'm using pie so it's .75 extra which is about right. Yay go pie.

Tyla · Jan 08, 2009, 12:15 AM // 00:15

Bad. No IAS, you only need "SY!" - "TOF!" is best swapped for something that deals damage. Uncomparable in power incredibly compared to several variants.

TheRanger · Jan 08, 2009, 12:21 AM // 00:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

Bad. No IAS, you only need "SY!" - "TOF!" is best swapped for something that deals damage. Uncomparable in power incredibly compared to several variants.

Whoa, whoa jellybean. Slow down, best you actually read mah entire post before poasting.

Also, that last comment makes your poast toast sound like a troll roast but I'll add anyway. Since Spear attributes and Leadership would likely be swapped, that's 12+1 Spear. Pretty spiffy enough, huh. If needed, you could burn a Sup Spear on it which is actually not that bad and I might consider it actuallly. So 16 spear with Battle Standard (Also gives the +damage to ward range (aka uber), and Drawfs Weapon x(3ish'). So that's an extra whaaaa.. 60 per attack with KD effects plus the damage from Ebon with 16 Spear. Mmmkay so let's say you had 4 people within that ward(very reasonable if not more), that's another +60, every attack. So imagine if someone attacks once every 1.5 seconds (again very reasonable), that's adding up to 120 every 1.5 seconds, and 240 damage you're causing total over 3 seconds. That's 720 extra damage in 9 seconds, if not more from extra people in the ward, mango. Mmmkay you can't beat more damage than that other than Spear Skills, which is pathetic in comparison. Damage skills with +30damage at max with recharge? That's nothing. Deep wound skill? Mmmmkay so it lacks that but isn't even important- paragon deep wounds skills require a conditional effect that can be non-spiffy to reach. Again, it's recharge in comparison to total mobs and their quick deaths-it doesn't matter because one deep wound is not going to break the game when you're facin' 16 other mobs than go quickly down and penguins. No muffins, soap. Radio.

Kerwyn Nasilan · Jan 08, 2009, 12:50 AM // 00:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheRanger

Whoa, whoa jellybean. Slow down, best you actually read mah entire post before poasting.

Also, that last comment makes your poast toast sound like a troll roast but I'll add anyway. Since Spear attributes and Leadership would likely be swapped, that's 12+1 Spear. Pretty spiffy enough, huh. If needed, you could burn a Sup Spear on it which is actually not that bad and I might consider it actuallly. So 16 spear with Battle Standard (Also gives the +damage to ward range (aka uber), and Drawfs Weapon x(3ish'). So that's an extra whaaaa.. 60 per attack with KD effects plus the damage from Ebon with 16 Spear. Mmmkay so let's say you had 4 people within that ward(very reasonable if not more), that's another +60, every attack. So imagine if someone attacks once every 1.5 seconds (again very reasonable), that's adding up to 120 every 1.5 seconds, and 240 damage you're causing total over 3 seconds. That's 720 extra damage in 9 seconds, if not more from extra people in the ward, mango. Mmmkay you can't beat more damage than that other than Spear Skills, which is pathetic in comparison. Damage skills with +30damage at max with recharge? That's nothing. Deep wound skill? Mmmmkay so it lacks that but isn't even important- paragon deep wounds skills require a conditional effect that can be non-spiffy to reach. Again, it's recharge in comparison to total mobs and their quick deaths-it doesn't matter because one deep wound is not going to break the game when you're facin' 16 other mobs than go quickly down and penguins. No muffins, soap. Radio.

Cannot cast GDW on yourself, if that was not your intention then ignore this.

Arlan · Jan 08, 2009, 12:53 AM // 00:53

Change from my SY build.
Not sure i get all your reasons - so i'm going to try your build (chuck in a few variants i think of now) then let you know what i think.

mmmmkay?

Silversword22 · Jan 08, 2009, 01:22 AM // 01:22

First off, what happens when the pies run out hmmmm??

I don't understand you're damage calculations...but if you're not going to use any spear attacks, then why not just drop all the points from Spear Mastery? You only need your spear to gain adrenaline, so why not swap your points into something else? I dunno...just an idea.

I'd definitely swap out 'I'm the Strongest' for EBSoH.

I don't know about carrying Great Dwarf weapon. Someone else can bring it, or Splinter Weapon. I'd bring TNtF. It protects the team and still fuels your Mending Refrain.

I can't think of anything else to say. It's a different take on Imbagon. Don't know if I like it, considering that I like to do some kind of damage to whatever it is I'm fighting, but kudos for originality.

fenix · Jan 08, 2009, 01:26 AM // 01:26

I think my brain broke reading this thread, is the OP high? Must be some serious shit you're smoking, what the hell.

As for the bar, all you need is;

SY, TNTF, FGJ, Focused.

The other 4 should be something better than what you have, such as attack skills and an IAS, or even some stronger party-wide buffs.

TheRanger · Jan 08, 2009, 02:52 AM // 02:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silversword22

First off, what happens when the pies run out hmmmm??

I don't understand you're damage calculations...but if you're not going to use any spear attacks, then why not just drop all the points from Spear Mastery? You only need your spear to gain adrenaline, so why not swap your points into something else? I dunno...just an idea.

I'd definitely swap out 'I'm the Strongest' for EBSoH.

I don't know about carrying Great Dwarf weapon. Someone else can bring it, or Splinter Weapon. I'd bring TNtF. It protects the team and still fuels your Mending Refrain.

I can't think of anything else to say. It's a different take on Imbagon. Don't know if I like it, considering that I like to do some kind of damage to whatever it is I'm fighting, but kudos for originality.

Well there's nothing else to put into. My first build way back used Command and no Spear and that was bad because all you really need is SY to do the trick.

TNtF, I really don't like. 15E and 20recharge- well first it really doesn't fuel mending because of the recharge and it's a burden in energy. It's alright I suppose if you didn't have sig of agression to pre buff at start but the energy is pretty meh and uses a PvE skill. It has a heal party at the end but it's just not worth it with energy n' stuff, especially in comparison to Great D. Weapon. Even if someone else brought weapon, I'll probably still consider another skill like I'm the Strongest because 30% reduction is like 3% stacked with SY.

And for damage calcuations, well..

Battle Stance makes people do +15 damage a hit, and Great Weapon does +20 a hit.

So if you buff 3 people with Great Weapon, you'll add +60 damage to the total amount your team is doing. Likewise, if you have 4 people standing in the ward, you'll do the same.

considering that I like to do some kind of damage to

Also what's with this? 16 Spear base damage with an increased attack speed is definitely enough to justify some damage. o_p Also not to mention the paragraphs above this. *coughcough*

Quote:

The other 4 should be something better than what you have, such as attack skills and an IAS, or even some stronger party-wide buffs.

I'm not too sure what you're talking about mango because that's exactly what I have. Take Mending Refrain over TNtF- over 20 seconds(TNtF's recharge), mending refrain would heal 120 health- more than TNtFs. And anyone who's used heal party should know that some type of heal party or similar reduces soo very mucho pressure from the team and helps it so very mucho, it makes you o_O and O_o. Maybe people who PvP can understand it more to a certain standpoint. Anyways, party wide mending refrain does the same.

It has Great D's Weapon and Battle Stance, which I've already talked about tres tiempos already. Attacks skills are pathetic compared to them. Let's say you used a skill that does +30 with 6 recharge. That's 'kinda like' 5 damage a second. As explained before, those two skills I have does ~100 a second, mmmkay.

Oh and I also mentioned dos tiempos tabien, I use pie so there's no need for an IAS for meh.

daze · Jan 08, 2009, 06:38 AM // 06:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheRanger

Permanent Mending on everyone, which is uber.

I lol'ed

Now i really miss smoking weed.

Elephantaliste · Jan 08, 2009, 09:20 AM // 09:20

In Cons you forgot you can't cast Great Dwarf Weapon on yourself ?

Arkantos · Jan 08, 2009, 01:04 PM // 13:04

It's basically the standard imbagon without TNTF and attack skills. It's pretty bad tbh.

avilia · Jan 08, 2009, 02:12 PM // 14:12

This build is obviously not as good as the standard imagon builds, but that's why those are standard and this one is not. You're trying something different which is good.

That having been said, I'm not overly impressed with the build. You're trying too hard to make your character do everything. The result is that your character won't be very good in any of it.
- Damage reduction is far below that of an imagon. No TNTF means you loose 35% damage reduction half of the time and a party-wide 60 health every 20 seconds. You also have no IAS and several skills with a casting time + aftercast, so you might not be able to keep SY up the entire time.
- You're trying to heal your party through MR, but that means you also have to bring ToF and all you get is +3 health regen. That's 6 health per second which is only double of what you can get through TNTF and a whole lot more trouble.
- You want to do damage with IAtS, but the rest of your bar makes it clear that you don't want to do damage (no IAS, no spear attacks..)
- You want to bring utility like GDW. Nothing wrong with that by itself, but it costs 10 energy, cannot be cast on yourself and has a casting time and aftercast.

In short, I think you should drop at least one of these roles and specialize yourself in the others. You could drop the healing and damage roles and get something like:

[Focused Anger]["For Great Justice!"]["Save Yourselves!"]["There's Nothing To Fear!"][Signet of Aggression][optional][Great Dwarf Weapon][Aggressive Refrain]
?: 12+1+1
Leadership: 12+1
Spear Mastery: 3

The optional skill can be anything from Motivation, Command or Tactics, depending on what utility you need. You can max that attribute since you only have leadership and PvE skills. Still not as good as as a standard imbagon (no damage), but at least it's more focussed on imbagon with some utility.

TheRanger · Jan 08, 2009, 02:34 PM // 14:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by avilia

This build is obviously not as good as the standard imagon builds, but that's why those are standard and this one is not. You're trying something different which is good.

That having been said, I'm not overly impressed with the build. You're trying too hard to make your character do everything. The result is that your character won't be very good in any of it.
- Damage reduction is far below that of an imagon. No TNTF means you loose 35% damage reduction half of the time and a party-wide 60 health every 20 seconds. You also have no IAS and several skills with a casting time + aftercast, so you might not be able to keep SY up the entire time.
- You're trying to heal your party through MR, but that means you also have to bring ToF and all you get is +3 health regen. That's 6 health per second which is only double of what you can get through TNTF and a whole lot more trouble.
- You want to do damage with IAtS, but the rest of your bar makes it clear that you don't want to do damage (no IAS, no spear attacks..)
- You want to bring utility like GDW. Nothing wrong with that by itself, but it costs 10 energy, cannot be cast on yourself and has a casting time and aftercast.

In short, I think you should drop at least one of these roles and specialize yourself in the others. You could drop the healing and damage roles and get something like:

[Focused Anger]["For Great Justice!"]["Save Yourselves!"]["There's Nothing To Fear!"][Signet of Aggression][optional][Great Dwarf Weapon][Aggressive Refrain]
?: 12+1+1
Leadership: 12+1
Spear Mastery: 3

The optional skill can be anything from Motivation, Command or Tactics, depending on what utility you need. You can max that attribute since you only have leadership and PvE skills. Still not as good as as a standard imbagon (no damage), but at least it's more focussed on imbagon with some utility.

Whoas, people to need to read more. I dun have enuff tiempo to post so I'll quote my other posts instead.

Quote:

- Damage reduction is far below that of an imagon. No TNTF means you loose 35% damage reduction half of the time and a party-wide 60 health every 20 seconds. You also have no IAS and several skills with a casting time + aftercast, so you might not be able to keep SY up the entire time.

I have a stack of pie from a while back so Aggressive Refrain isn't necessary for me.

Even if someone else brought weapon, I'll probably still consider another skill like I'm the Strongest because 30% reduction is like 3% stacked with SY.

Quote:

- You're trying to heal your party through MR, but that means you also have to bring ToF and all you get is +3 health regen. That's 6 health per second which is only double of what you can get through TNTF and a whole lot more trouble.

Quote:

"..Signet of Aggression.." "..SY just before the battle start, which is very mucho uber because most mobs will often cast their 1337 skills at the start."

Quote:

- You want to do damage with IAtS, but the rest of your bar makes it clear that you don't want to do damage (no IAS, no spear attacks..)

It has Great D's Weapon and Battle Stance, which I've already talked about tres tiempos already. Attacks skills are pathetic compared to them. Let's say you used a skill that does +30 with 6 recharge. That's 'kinda like' 5 damage a second. As explained before, those two skills I have does ~100 a second, mmmkay.

Quote:

- You want to bring utility like GDW. Nothing wrong with that by itself, but it costs 10 energy, cannot be cast on yourself and has a casting time and aftercast.

Alliance track also is maxed so SY can be kept up infinitely even while casting skills such as Great Dwarfs Weapon.

avilia · Jan 08, 2009, 04:20 PM // 16:20

You ask us for ideas, but I'm getting the feeling that the only thing you want to hear is that the build is great. I suggest you try it out. See if you can actually keep SY up while also maintaining Mending Refrain and Great Dwarf Weapon. See if +3 health regeneration actually does any good. See if you're still happy you left TNtF off you bar when monsters start attacking you or if your team is facing armor-ignoring damage. You can see for yourself how often four people are staying put inside your Ebon Battle Standard of Honor. I'm also curious how long your energy bar can keep up with all those 10e spells/shouts.

Be sure to post your findings.

Silversword22 · Jan 08, 2009, 06:12 PM // 18:12

An couple ideas for an Imbagon with no spear dmg (using your pies with no AR):

Motiv Variant:
[build prof=P/W Leadership=12+1+1 Motivation=12+1][Focused Anger]["For Great Justice!"]["Save Yourselves!"]["There's Nothing To Fear!"][ballad of restoration][aria of restoration][ebon battle standard of honor][optional][/build] Long casting, long recharge but at least you're devoting yourself completely to support.

Command Variant:
[build prof=P/W Leadership=12+1+1 Command=12+1][focused anger][for great justice][save yourselves][there's nothing to fear][never surrender][stand your ground][ebon battle standard of honor][optional][/build]
Same idea but with shouts.

Hopefully SY! spamming with 14 leadership should cover any energy problems. Dunno, haven't tried them out yet...

TheRanger · Jan 08, 2009, 10:46 PM // 22:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by avilia

You ask us for ideas, but I'm getting the feeling that the only thing you want to hear is that the build is great. I suggest you try it out. See if you can actually keep SY up while also maintaining Mending Refrain and Great Dwarf Weapon. See if +3 health regeneration actually does any good. See if you're still happy you left TNtF off you bar when monsters start attacking you or if your team is facing armor-ignoring damage. You can see for yourself how often four people are staying put inside your Ebon Battle Standard of Honor. I'm also curious how long your energy bar can keep up with all those 10e spells/shouts.

Be sure to post your findings.

Mmmmkay see, I know the build is good but I enjoy being humble so let's say I have no idea if it's good. What is not spiffy n' stuff is people are telling me it's bad only for things that I've either pointed out in the orgininal post (eg. pies and IAS), or something I've mentioned numerous times in my replies (eg. spear attacks and damage). I have no problemo if someone argues over something I haven't pointed out, and informs me of my opinions otherwise. So far I have not seen any of it in this thread.. except maybe a few that of unrelevant importantace that I can't think of at the momento, because if you were wondering, it is of little unrelevant importance, and therefore I can't think of it at the memento.

I've been using this build for quite a while, everything you mentioned is just fine- I mean you say that as if you except them not to work, especially stated by the reference to TNtF. No energy problems- pre adding Battle Stance and swapping attributes that is, who knows.

Tyla · Jan 08, 2009, 11:56 PM // 23:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheRanger

Whoa, whoa jellybean. Slow down, best you actually read mah entire post before poasting.

The build is enough, thank you.

Quote:

Also, that last comment makes your poast toast sound like a troll roast but I'll add anyway.

wut

Quote:

Since Spear attributes and Leadership would likely be swapped, that's 12+1 Spear. Pretty spiffy enough, huh. If needed, you could burn a Sup Spear on it which is actually not that bad and I might consider it actuallly. So 16 spear with Battle Standard (Also gives the +damage to ward range (aka uber),

Weapon skills. You'd be a fool not to use them on a class that deals damage, and you'd be a fool not taking advantage of Spear Mastery.

Quote:

and Drawfs Weapon x(3ish'). So that's an extra whaaaa.. 60 per attack with KD effects plus the damage from Ebon with 16 Spear.

Read skill descriptions. Do you often play games without learning the controls?

Quote:

Mmmkay so let's say you had 4 people within that ward(very reasonable if not more), that's another +60, every attack. So imagine if someone attacks once every 1.5 seconds (again very reasonable), that's adding up to 120 every 1.5 seconds, and 240 damage you're causing total over 3 seconds. That's 720 extra damage in 9 seconds, if not more from extra people in the ward, mango. Mmmkay you can't beat more damage than that other than Spear Skills, which is pathetic in comparison. Damage skills with +30damage at max with recharge? That's nothing.

Since when did EBSoH become unusable on the "usual" Imbagon? I don't even recall saying that it was bad.

Quote:

Deep wound skill? Mmmmkay so it lacks that but isn't even important- paragon deep wounds skills require a conditional effect that can be non-spiffy to reach. Again, it's recharge in comparison to total mobs and their quick deaths-it doesn't matter because one deep wound is not going to break the game when you're facin' 16 other mobs than go quickly down and penguins. No muffins, soap. Radio.

No one deep wound is going to break the game, but neither is more damage. Vicious Attack is a fairly decent attack skill which may hit for +118 damage.

Also, when people say it's "bad" they don't mean "that doesn't work", they mean it's utter shit in comparrisson to other alternatives, but if you want to be unique, go do it somewhere else, because unless you're putting in restrictions or requests of a certain build type, and if you're not going to compare to several other alternatives aswell, you're only asking for negative feedback.

TheRanger · Jan 09, 2009, 02:22 AM // 02:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheRanger

Mmmmkay watermelon, don't try to argue just for the sake of aruging mango. I mean that's not spiffy beacuse of those damn penguins.

Mmmkay so,

Already explained in like every single of mah replies. No moar long messages for meh anymore onion.

Don't worry guys, you'll began to realize it in a year or two.

Great D's Weapon- Recharge 5 seconds. Duration 20 seconds. Meaning it can be maintained on 3 other allies at a time. Obvious 'for sake of aruging argument'. I give it a 5/10. Loses points for trying to flame.

And I don't even recall saying it was unsuable. What's that one argument technique called where you introduce something completely irrevant to the scene and forgetting about the real thingy thing? That's what you just did apple, my comment of EBSoH to you was refering to your comment on damage.

Vicious Attack does +25 damage at the cost of 10E and 8R. Any other damage is given by your base damage. You guys don't understand attack skills and overall damage in conjunction of energy and recharge yet so I'll just give you a muffin folks.

*Gives muffin.*

I don't see what's so unique with mah build in the first place. It's an imagon with SY and supportive skills. In fact, I've never even looked at one; I make all mah builds myself, which is probably is why I tend to be from experience, a year ahead of people in terms of GW thoughts. (Yes, I'm going to be flamed for this. No worries though! I has a lv2 Flame Shield.)

And nu uh, I made the poast toast roast to grab suggestions, but here's the depressing part:

You ready?

You Sure?

Really sure?

Really really sure?

Really really super sure?

Really really super mega sure?

Really really super mega awesome sure?

Kay, well you guys aren't giving me any.

But wait! Some of you are! So why did I just say that?

Because I'm giving you reasonable arugments why I believe it does not belong there. And you aren't replying and convincing me why otherwise. Not one post yet.

But the depressing part is that the arguments are stupid! Sorry penguins, but you just don't understand. It's seems at clear as day obvious but I guess you guys can't think for yourself because you find and improvise all your builds from here and PvX. See, when you do this, you don't think skills as skills- and what they are. (If you were wondering, they are skills). And other stuff too, just so you know!

But when all is well and ends well, we all come back to this quote right here.

Quote:

The build is enough, thank you.

(Btw, pie)

Which means you're trying to argue with me without reading anything I said. But let's don't be silly, it's either that, or you're trolling.

So either way, we all

Also I flailed at my quotes. I give